Diet blahblah

[garote]

Listening to a podcast about energy and metabolism. The lecturer says, "You know when you walk up to a person who's on the Atkins diet, and their breath smells like a chemistry lab? That's because they're body is in ketosis."

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

"Ketosis is a state in metabolism occurring when the liver excessively converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies which can be used by the body for energy."
...
"Most medical resources regard ketosis as a physiological state associated with chronic starvation.[citation needed] Glucose is regarded as the preferred energy source for all cells in the body with ketosis being regarded as a crisis reaction of the body to a lack of carbohydrates in the diet."
...
"Ketone bodies, from the breakdown of fatty acids to acetyl groups, are also produced during this state, and are burned throughout the body. Excess ketone bodies will slowly decarboxylate into acetone. That molecule is excreted in the breath and urine."

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So basically, a person on Atkins is in a state of low-grade starvation, and is literally breathing the remnants of their fat cells into the air.

Following the above page to the one on low-carb diets, one learns that there is currently a debate over whether this state of starvation is normal for the human body. The argument goes like this: Before agriculture made carbohydrates abundant, people spent a lot more of their time in ketosis, burning fat and protein for fuel, instead of burning glucose derived from starch in their last meal. Basically, starvation was a way of life. As far as proof of the "benefits" or harmlessness of ketosis goes, this is a very poor argument, since by the same tack one could also consider it "normal" for inland peoples to develop goitre and for sailors to get scurvy.

The two long term studies cited by the article were not convincing either:

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/140/10/778?etoc
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/359/3/229

Their data shows that, beyond one year, weight loss is not significantly different between a low-carb diet or a "traditional" low-fat one. Based on this, I find myself agreeing with the Drs Arne Astrup, Thomas Meinert Larsen, and Angela Harper (RVA University, Copenhagen, Denmark), when they say:

"Weight loss on the low-carbohydrate diet is probably caused by a combination of restriction of food choices and the enhanced satiety produced by the high-protein content."

In other words, it works because, duh, people on it eat less than they usually do.

Seems the unifying thread here is the urge to eat. Whether physiological, psychological, or social.

Comments

[nekidwhiteboy.livejournal.com]

I grew up a really fat kid; the atkins diet was the first (and only, unless you count that whole meth habit thing) that ever actually resulted in me losing weight. And no, it was not simply due to an overall reduction in calorie intake; my calorie intake was quite a bit higher during the months that I did atkins.

I will say, though, that the idea of sticking to a low/no-carb diet in the long-term to be pretty retarded, or at least it would be for me. It's useful as a way to lose weight by doing nothing but altering your eating habits, but I cannot imagine doing it for more than, say, 1 month at a time; and even during those months, I ate whatever I wanted on the weekends. I lost just under 70 pounds in about six months.

And then, like anything else in the realm of personal physical health, it don't work worth a damn for some people. Some people gain weight even after sticking to it religiously. For others, like me, whose bodies seem really resistant to shedding excess fat as a general rule, it's sometimes the only thing that works.

And still for other people, it can be the catalist for the onset of Diabetes, particularly if diabetes seems to run in your family.

It isn't a completely safe OR totally healthy process, but then again, weight loss is a sketchy, relatively-unhealthy process no matter how you come by it.

[rudetuesday.livejournal.com]

When I was in high school, some of the more serious football players smelled weird, but I wasn't sure what this smell was until The Atkins Diet was everywhere. It's very strange that restrictive eating of one sort is called a weight-loss diet, but another sort is defined as an eating disorder. They're both dangerous enough after a point.

Regarding longer-term ketosis, I wonder if levels of activity in our hunter-gatherer kin helped offset physical damage. Come to think of it, I don't think many of those cultures were especially long-lived...

I'm also alarmed about how little psychological support people get when they get gastric bypass surgery or go on weight-loss diets. A lot of people eat for entertainment or go for that post-Thanksgiving gorge feeling after every meal. That sort of eating is going to need a lot of work to change, even beyond making a smaller-capacity stomach.

[garote]

Yeah... the lack of psychological support in most weight loss activities is astounding. I sourly assume there is only one real explanation for it: No money to be made.

[headless-chickn.livejournal.com]

I too have had a serious weight problem for more of my life then not. I too have only *ever* successfully lost weight via the low-carb route.

For me the effectiveness was two-fold... the unlimited food amounts and the specific foods that are allowed. Carbs (especially sugars) produce little or no satisfaction in me and only leave me craving more carbs. Fats produce an immediate satiety. Kind of like the French thing of having cheese with fruit... balance the sugar with some fat. As rudetuesday notes above: "A lot of people ... go for that post-Thanksgiving gorge feeling after every meal". Sigh, yea... I'm one of those folks. But when I'm in ketosis I can get there on a much smaller quantity of food.

I agree tho, that after my 1.5 year period of "radical adjustment" I now find low-carb and "traditional" diets about equally effective for weight control in the 10-20 lb. range. There's no way I could have shed 90 lbs. tho on a traditional diet, tho. Just couldn't have happened.

Also, the medical relationship between ketosis and starvation is poorly understood at best. The phenomenon was first observed in persons who had undergone starvation diets and ever since then it's been associated with that condition. Every doctor whose ever attacked low-carb dieting has dredged up this factoid ad nauseum. Even wikipedia slapped that assertion with a [citation needed] stamp.

[garote]

Yes... I'm finding it very hard to know what to think about ketosis-based weight loss. Some of my confusion is coming from a few basic questions that I cannot get straight answers for:

1. Outside of ketosis, does exercise actually burn fat?
2. Is there a difference in what is burned during aerobic vs. anaerobic exercise?
3. How does ketosis, and the burning of "ketone bodies" for fuel, affect the health of the brain?

[headless-chickn.livejournal.com]

1: Yes, but only after you've used up all of the faster-burning carb / sugar calories in your system...

2: Not afaik, but I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

3: I'm in no position to answer that. It's kind of a "what if Batman got in a fight with Wonder Woman?" kinda question... All measurable indicators of health (blood pressure, blood sugar, lipids profile, cholesterol, liver function) improved significantly in me whilst low-carbing. Note, tho that I was coming out of a zero-exercise, eating whatever-the-hell-I-felt-like-all-the-time state prior to launching the diet so I really had nowhere to go but up.

Zoot Suit Diet

[breakpoint.livejournal.com]

Low-carbohydrate diets-- I probably can't properly say "Atkins" because 1) I didn't make any real effort to follow the "rules" beyond the "as few carbs as reasonably possible" basic, and 2) all the Atkins branded food is actually kind of expensive so I didn't eat much of it-- have worked well for me; however, not for the reasons generally claimed.

I actually used the little ketone measurement strips (you can buy these at Walgreens or any reasonable pharmacy section, because diabetics will use them as well) to measure how much time I spent in ketosis-- generally I'd do four or five days at a crack and then eat whatever I figured I might be most missing that week in terms of vitamins, etc., which would knock me back out for, oh, maybe four days or so.

There were two immediate changes for me personally:

1. I used to be a sprinter. I still run for the fuck of it at the drop of a hat. What I have realized, though, is that unless I am regularly running my ASS off, I mean miles per day, I need to sharply restrict the amount of carbohydrates I eat if I want to have any actual energy. Sugars, in particular, but starches as a close second.

2. After a few weeks on Atkins, my appetite went through the floor, my portion sizes got smaller, and they STAYED THAT WAY for a long time after I finished the diet. It may be true that the reduced appetite is initially partly due to the lack of options, but it outlasts that, in my experience.

The rule as you gradually get off the diet is this: DO NOT CLEAN YOUR PLATE! Eat as much as you are actually hungry for, and eat slow. Have a nice conversation over lunch. Take your fucking time. Your appetite will be a lot lower, but only if you acknowledge it. If you force yourself to eat all of what you are served, you will gradually crank it right back up again. Most restaurants will make you a half portion, if you remember to ask.

Or, do what I did after getting off my diet: go to the Cheesecake Factory, order the jambalaya, and get the rest to go. I think I got three days out of that meal!

The Atkins food is kind of blah, but you will want to have at least some of it around during the diet, particularly at your job. What you want to avoid is having no choice but to eat the food you are trying to avoid. This goes for any diet, of course. The shakes are tolerable and actually not a bad idea once in a while in as much as they are balanced to have some of the vitamins and minerals you are shorting yourself. You can do the same thing cheaper with supplements, of course; a couple of one-a-days will solve most of the issues just fine.

I seem to recall Adam was on Atkins over Burning Man one year. A week running around in that heat, while on a diet, rationing meat out of a cooler, definitely did the trick-- between that week and the rest of the month, he dropped something like 20 pounds, and turned a lot more from fat back into muscle. He was in a LOT better shape.

Exercise is not optional for any diet, but you're particularly silly if you're on a high-protein diet and don't exercise-- you can build muscle with ridiculously little effort.

Re: Zoot Suit Diet

[garote]

Interesting ... I had no idea you'd tried a low-carb approach. Or even that you'd dieted.

Question: Did it affect your coding skill? :D

Muscle

[breakpoint.livejournal.com]

Oh, and by the way, most people seem to miss the point of exercising while dieting.

The point of exercising is NOT to lose weight. It is to convert fat into muscle. This process, if you were able to do it one-to-one, would actually cause you to initially GAIN weight. However,

a) you'd probably look a lot better for it,

b) you'll stop putting ON as much weight, because the muscle is less efficient than fat, and uses more energy to maintain,

and

c) you'll be able to beat up forkboys, and who doesn't want to have that option?

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

I just ended an Atkins style low carb deal.

Digestive system wasn't happy, needed, erm, occasional assistance.
Got sick of meat and cheese and vegetables after two weeks.
Lost 5 lbs though!

I'd do it again.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I didn't exercise at all except for my regular active job.
Had I gone to the gym.. I'm sure it would have been far more effective on every front.